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Regarding the removal of Spirit Points from area bosses | YunaMS Forum

Regarding the removal of Spirit Points from area bosses

Lloydboi

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Feb 27, 2023
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So, I may be late the party, but I wanted to voice some opinions, and start a discussion.

In terms of the new update, I agree with the removal of gachapon from area bosses, but I don't agree with the removal of spirit points. I think we can all agree that gachapon is a luxury. If it wasn't then it'd be something that could be bought in the cash shop like other servers. Stuff like that I don't think is good for the economy. However, I don't believe spirit points from area bosses falls into that same category.

1) SP is the main source for progressing your character into the late game. Without access to the scrolls offered from spirit points, the endgame would be completely different. It's a pivotal part of getting to that point.
2) The economy. While I understand that you can get 70+ spirit points from area bosses a day if you look at the correct time, I don't think this affects the economy one bit. The server has a small, but dedicated, player base at the moment. That means, there is not a lot of mesos in circulation. I don't think anybody is farming area bosses for spirit points so they can turn a profit for mesos (except maybe in the case of gachapon, but I agree that should stay removed). The main reason for farming spirit points from area bosses is to help progress with your endgame equipment.
3) This reason may be a bit controversial, especially since the community is smaller and more tight nit, but not everyone wants to take part in group play all the time. I understand that boss runs are a big part of getting spirit points, but that comes with group interaction. Whether it be time or preference, maybe someone wants to have the option at times to do endgame progression on their own.
4) Abuse of the system. Like I mentioned above, I think the gachapon should be fully removed from killing area bosses. Just like I believe gachapon should never be allowed to be bought with NX. However, like NX, spirit points is not the same. It's not something one can make multiple accounts and constantly farm over and over. Area bosses are server side. You're either there in time, or you aren't. I personally don't think it was being abused before it's removal, I don't think it's something that will be in the future.

These are just my thoughts on why I think spirit points should be brought back when killing area bosses. I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts. Agree? Disagree? Maybe a middle ground? and why you might think that reason.

Also, I think changing the system is a valid way to deal with it too. For example, maybe intstead of spirit points per kill, per channel every time the boss respawns, it becomes 1 instance of spirit points per area boss kill per day. You can't go to different channels and claim more, and you can't wait for the next respawn. This would keep the system in play but reduce it's effectiveness, while also make the farming method more accessible to a wider number of players. I think reinstatement of the system is good or also changing of the system, but not a total removal of the system.
 
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Jeemie

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Dec 19, 2022
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I like this!

Having the spirit points for area bosses being once a day can be a good middle ground as well. It won't stop them if they're hunting for cards but it would definitely help bring down the need for someone constantly taking them all.

Perhaps even shortening the respawn timer can be beneficial.

Just leave Griffey/Manon out of this due to their high demand prior already.
 
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Dame

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Feb 14, 2023
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I agree!

I originally had reservations about this area boss system removing the ability for new players to quest, and it probably did, but the system had definitely grown on me nonetheless.

Making some tweaks like you propose should make the old concern a non-concern!

💜
 

Dilemma

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Dec 12, 2022
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Singapore
I would agree with all the points (1-4) above.
Taking out the SPs from field bosses basically wrecks anyone that misses the boss trains. Once u miss the boss trains, u literally have 0 form of meaningful rate of progression (equipment value wise). It will lead to consequences like, "Oh i miss the boss trains, there's nothing to do in-game for me to progress. I'm logoff.". If players have difficulty conforming to a certain play schedule/time (ie. boss train timings), it enforces such a harsh penalty that it will definitely expels the said player off the game server without a doubt, just due to lack of meaningful progression.

Field bosses offer a alternative way of SP farming. If someone is OFF for the boss train timings (ie. the populated period of time), he would be able to farm field bosses well (since ppl are offline). If someone is ON the boss train timings, he can opt for boss trains and progress as per normal of boss trains rewards/exp/sp.
It allows players to have their own FREEDOM to choose their play time instead of being socially-conformed to play at a certain time for game progression, which is definitely unhealthy especially if we are working or committed to events in real life.

Point agreed:
1. SP should stay as they are.
2. Gachapon can be removed (they are kinda overly rewarding).

But i have a few disagreements to some of the suggestions made above:
1. Rewards of SP per instance per area Boss
-it will ONLY benefit ppl with multiple accounts (be it, inherited accounts or shared accounts or self internal accounts). the last thing u want to see is that ppl are forced to make multiple accounts just to level the gaming field. the situation of having multiple inherited / personal accounts is already overwhelming advantageous (being able to go for bossing for SPs multiple times with different accounts). Doing this will just widen the advantages of having multiple accounts. It does not make fair plays of players actually spending the time / effort to hunt the bosses, all it does is promote creation of new multiple accounts just for farming field bosses, while the population of actual players still remain the same.

2. Shortening the spawn timer
-Will snowball into SP abuse. Definitely a no-no. The spawn timer is healthy as it is now.

3. Quests that Involves Bosses Drop / Etcs / Kill Count
-Ideally we can offer multiple options to finish these quests to players who are attempting to finish the quests.
A. Meso Payment to finish the quest. (Appropriate amount to appropriate EXP/Reward amount)
B. Change Boss Kills / Boss Etcs Drops to Normal Mobs' Kills / Boss Etc Drops
Eg. Hero's Will Quest: From Griffey's Bracelet (Boss Spawn Drop Kill only) to Drops from Griffey at 100% rate & Kentas (or any other relevant mob at 1% rate)
Eg. 4th Job Advancement: Kill 1 Manon+Griffey and obtain their etcs or 10M mesos -> Kill 1 Manon+Griffey and obtain their etcs or 10M meso or Kill 200 Kentas of each variation (Blue/Red/Black).


Just something to note during the FIRST day of SP eradication from Field Bossing:
Personal POV:
-Lost all SP income for the day as I have to skip the only boss train of the day due to work commitment irl.
-Nothing to do ingame except Skele & GS2, in which brings only mesos, which is super underwhelming in terms of progression in ratio to effort spent.

Community POV:
-Game community becomes less active. All logoffs after said boss train.
-No longer see any field boss-hunters online at all (yes we do see each other sometimes during our sweeps and laugh it off if we "lose a fight in our sweeps". We are rather gracious in these, some even shared information so that we dont waste time/tp rocks in double sweeping when the boss spawn timers are on cool down.).

In conclusion, taking away SP from field bosses just serve as another nail to the coffin. It over-punishes players that are unable to conform to a certain playtime schedule mandated by the majority / those in-charge of the boss train timings.
 

Zark

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Jan 3, 2023
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I'm going to spare everyone a few paragraphs of me rambling about supply and demand, but I will posit some compromises and suggestions I think are worth considering.

1. Gacha tics were definitely too much value, but having them as drops was a nice way of earning them outside of direct meso purchase. Maybe keep SP on bosses but add gach tix to SP shop? That way, players can still directly earn gacha by bossing if they want to.

2. Create an instance where (nearly) identical versions of Manon and Griffey can be fought to earn their etc/quest drops. This removes an artificial (and inconvenient) gate on players advancing to 4th job or finishing the Will quest. Main difference in these bosses is that they don't give EXP or SP on kill and only have their ETC drop at 100%, no other drops.

3. Nerf boss card completion bonuses. +3 all stat is too much, considering players can get +30 all stat before even hitting 3rd job with just killing area bosses (maybe more).

4. A way to check how long it will be before a field boss will spawn would even out the massive advantage the previous slayer has over anyone coming into a boss map fresh.
 
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Zark

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Jan 3, 2023
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-No longer see any field boss-hunters online at all (yes we do see each other sometimes during our sweeps and laugh it off if we "lose a fight in our sweeps". We are rather gracious in these, some even shared information so that we dont waste time/tp rocks in double sweeping when the boss spawn timers are on cool down.).
Didn't know I was missed, haven't been able to play in over a week sorry!
 
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Silfiuyi

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Jan 14, 2023
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I agree. Early-mid game players were able to gain, at least, some SP when there's no friends or boss runners online. This way, the gap did not become too big to be able to complete anything on SP section. And yes, no more free Gachas there.

On the other hand, keep the 4 dailies Yuna event for Event points pls( so millionaire expenses are not made for a bunch of gachas when u can get them by saving EP)
 
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Lloydboi

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Feb 27, 2023
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I'm going to spare everyone a few paragraphs of me rambling about supply and demand, but I will posit some compromises and suggestions I think are worth considering.

1. Gacha tics were definitely too much value, but having them as drops was a nice way of earning them outside of direct meso purchase. Maybe keep SP on bosses but add gach tix to SP shop? That way, players can still directly earn gacha by bossing if they want to.

2. Create an instance where (nearly) identical versions of Manon and Griffey can be fought to earn their etc/quest drops. This removes an artificial (and inconvenient) gate on players advancing to 4th job or finishing the Will quest. Main difference in these bosses is that they don't give EXP or SP on kill and only have their ETC drop at 100%, no other drops.

3. Nerf boss card completion bonuses. +3 all stat is too much, considering players can get +30 all stat before even hitting 3rd job with just killing area bosses (maybe more).

4. A way to check how long it will be before a field boss will spawn would even out the massive advantage the previous slayer has over anyone coming into a boss map fresh.
I agree except on option 4. I think area bosses should be a bit competitive, and I say that because I haven’t seen anyone dominating area bosses all day everyday. It was always pretty fair. If a viewable timer is added, then I feel like everyone in the server is just going to check it 24/7 and rush to it once available.
 

Zark

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Member
Jan 3, 2023
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I agree except on option 4. I think area bosses should be a bit competitive, and I say that because I haven’t seen anyone dominating area bosses all day everyday. It was always pretty fair. If a viewable timer is added, then I feel like everyone in the server is just going to check it 24/7 and rush to it once available.
In my mind, this would be a chat command, like /bosstime, only usable while on an appropriate map and channel. Maybe not a timer until next spawn, but a log of when it was last killed. Tbf, I don't know if a feature like this could even be implemented, just think it would be useful.
 

Lloydboi

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Feb 27, 2023
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In my mind, this would be a chat command, like /bosstime, only usable while on an appropriate map and channel. Maybe not a timer until next spawn, but a log of when it was last killed. Tbf, I don't know if a feature like this could even be implemented, just think it would be useful.
Okay, yea. A log of when it was killed could work. I think only as long as you’re on the map/channel. Then it would still require some commitment on the players part
 

Lloydboi

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Feb 27, 2023
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Petition to move this thread to suggestions. What are the odds of this getting implemented back? Whether it's comes back like normal or changed?
 
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Natalka

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Jan 22, 2023
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Whether it's area bossing or not, we need content that we can do and that feels meaingful to do when we log in each day beyond that of only bossing and party grinding... we need that urgently, balance specifics are really not a concern at this point. There's got to be something, or preferably multiple things of hastily-created content and some Spirit Point distribution as well. Preferably area bossing and something else because by its nature area bossing is to a degree a finite resource and is also time-based. To be honest, I'm finally starting to lose morale and I (personally) care less about further progression as I do having an ability to do something a little fun and different by myself or maybe with a couple friends.

Even adding Spirit Points to other PQs, non-boss daily content or as a reward mechanism (to some degree) for helping other people level up would feel a lot better. And there are quite a good amount of new players who deserve better ability and pace to progress without partial reliance on the whims and availability of people like me.
 

Dame

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Feb 14, 2023
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Whether it's area bossing or not, we need content that we can do and that feels meaingful to do when we log in each day beyond that of only bossing and party grinding... we need that urgently, balance specifics are really not a concern at this point. There's got to be something, or preferably multiple things of hastily-created content and some Spirit Point distribution as well. Preferably area bossing and something else...

I'm coming in to second this, and hopefully further reinforce the urgency.

Yuna, you do a great job already, and I don't like adding more pressure, but this definitely needs to be a priority for player retention right now.

The temporarily limited player base has created a content vacuum, as many of us prioritize getting as many people through content as possible. Functionally, it's a few key players manually performing player retention activities with a lot of waiting time in between.

Once the major bosses are done, for those lucky enough to be on at the correct times to do them, it's now GRIND TIME.
Just grind time.
 
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