Suggestion on combo tempest (Aran 4th job skill)

[imamu]

I've been experimenting with the 4th job damage output skill combo tempest (CT),
in it current state, every Aran I ask tells me to completely ignore the skill in favor of the 3rd job damage skill combo fenrir (CF).

And the reasons become clear after trying to play with the skil:

1. it doesn't kills anything: against lower level mobs, it leaves them at 1 hp, against higher level mobs it does damage according to their current health which means as the mob gets lower and lower in health, the damage from CT is also lower -- and it never kills.
2. resets combo count: unlike other combo skills, it completely resets the combo count up use. This, coupled with needing multiple uses to kill even lower level mobs makes it hard to be picked over the 3rd job skill.
3. overlapping inputs: if players wanted to use a combination of CT and CF, say for different situations, it becomes difficult because they share the same input. So the best thing right now is just to choose one over the other.

CT is such a cool skill, and it being the 4th job damage skill I feel like it should be used, maybe not completely replaces CF but still be viable in different situations, but the current problems, especially overlapping input, makes it hard to justify putting any points into it.

To this end, I propose changes to mitigate these 3 problems:

1. max health based damage calculation: even with the formula adjusted to be based on max health instead of current health, it'll still take multiple max level CT's to kill any mob. against lower level mob, perhaps it can leave them at 1hp on the 1st hit, but kills on the 2nd.
2. -200 combo count on use: to stay in line with the other combo skills
3. new input: is a common input for supers/ultimate in fighting games, this can mitigate the input overlap problem.

thank you Yuna for your amazing work on this server, and I appreciate your time reading this.

 

[imamu]

ah also, after maxing some 4th job support skills, there's really no other skills to put point in to increase damage. It just feels like I haven't made any progression towards having more interesting skills or have anything to look forward to since lvl 140 ish

 

[yuna]

I like these ideas! What we can do is maybe add some logic where, if the mob's health is below 5%, it will execute them instead of just 1'ing the monster. This would address both the utility, as well as prevent Tempest being rendered useless if the mob is already at 1 HP. The combo count can be adjusted as well. My only concern is if this is in any way, shape, or form, abusable. Can't think of anything off the top of my head, but curious if others have any thoughts?

As for the input, this is definitely a client mod which I've never looked into, so I'll see what kind of coding-based-magical-spells we can cast on the input sequence~

 

[imamu]

I like these ideas! What we can do is maybe add some logic where, if the mob's health is below 5%, it will execute them instead of just 1'ing the monster. This would address both the utility, as well as prevent Tempest being rendered useless if the mob is already at 1 HP. The combo count can be adjusted as well. My only concern is if this is in any way, shape, or form, abusable. Can't think of anything off the top of my head, but curious if others have any thoughts?

As for the input, this is definitely a client mod which I've never looked into, so I'll see what kind of coding-based-magical-spells we can cast on the input sequence~

I also want to bring your attention to the current formula -- dealing damage based on current health of the mob
at max skill lvl, it does 37.5% of the remaining health to a mob.
which means it'll take 7 uses of combo tempest to bring a mob down to below 5%.

maybe there can be a fixed damage based on max health in addition to the current formulation? or just have it purely based on max health.

i'm just thinking about if it only clear mobs in 7 uses (1400 combo count build up), it'll still be hard to use.

 

[yuna]

Hmm I see what you're saying, so curious what would you propose specifically then? Still what you mentioned above?

1) max health based damage calculation: even with the formula adjusted to be based on max health instead of current health, it'll still take multiple max level CT's to kill any mob. against lower level mob, perhaps it can leave them at 1hp on the 1st hit, but kills on the 2nd.
2) -200 combo count on use: to stay in line with the other combo skills
3) new input: ⬇️➡️⬇️➡️ is a common input for supers/ultimate in fighting games, this can mitigate the input overlap problem.

 

[imamu]

i think as a baseline implementation we can try:
fix damage (based on atk or mob max health) + % based on max health -- any number to guarantee like a 3 or 4 hit kill
and see how it performs.

but the input needs to be changed so we can try using it without it overwriting Fenrir
then we can adjust as needed

 

[weirddog]

I think one thing to consider here is that % max health damage could mean very undergeared Arans can easily farm any map (e.g SH) as soon as they get access to tempest. Considering tempest can hit 15, this would make Arans easily one of the best end-game mobbers with extremely low gearing cost which might not be great.

I definitely think tempest needs a change / % current health can be underwhelming, but if we're switching to % max health damage I think we should be careful. Maybe base skill damage + % current health would be better?